McBride denies O'Sullivan's influence over IPID investigations

Former Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) head Robert McBride on Wednesday said he never requested anything from forensic investigator Paul O’Sullivan.

Testifying before the Ad Hoc Committee probing allegations made by KwaZulu-Natal police commissioner Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi, McBride said O’Sullivan always called when he has information.

“I never sought information from him,” he said.

McBride told the Ad Hoc Committee that some of the information O’Sullivan provided was irrelevant to the police watchdog body, however, it gave an insight into understanding syndicates and drug distribution.

“Some of his information used to be useful in our investigations,” he said.

“He did not influence us. No one on this earth can influence me. I always do the right thing,” he said.

Witnesses appearing before the parliamentary inquiry had claimed that O’Sullivan was in control of IPID and conducted some of its investigations.

McBride said O’Sullivan was one of the sources of information.

“The fact that he provided information does not translate into controlling IPID.

“That is a fiction created by Phahlane. That is all they got. They got no explanation for charges they must face,” he said.

Earlier, McBride said he had known O’Sullivan since 2014 when he was appointed as IPID head.

“I met him in response to his provocation about what IPID’s predecessor had done to him. I never met him before.”

According to McBride, the controversial forensic investigator did not undertake work for IPID.

Asked if he requested him to bring some point for IPID to investigate, McBride said: “No, I have not requested anything from him.”

When asked what he understood to be work done by O’Sullivan, the former IPID boss said he was a certified fraud examiner.

“He was assisting with forensic analysis of documents and basically doing investigative  journalism to uncover corruption.”

McBride said he never sought O’Sullivan’s assistance in the work of IPID.

“Some members of IPID might have engaged him. For me, he is someone with information. I would listen to him,” he said.

McBride told the Ad Hoc Committee that in engagements with O’Sullivan, he had stopped him twice when he overstepped his line.

In one instance, McBride said O’Sullivan tried to influence the arrest of certain persons who were under investigation by IPID after he apparently obtained insider information about an investigation.

He said he had told him that IPID followed evidence and handed a case to the prosecution authorities for a decision.

McBride denied that O’Sullivan accompanied IPID investigators when they conducted their investigation.

In the case of O’Sullivan visiting Phahlane’s house with IPID investigators, he said he was a complainant.

“Paul O’Sullivan showed IPID the alleged crimes at Phahlane’s house.”

He defended describing the house as a crime scene saying it was built with money from service providers.

“There is evidence money came in black plastic bags. Phahlane still stays in a crime scene,” said McBride.

When it was pointed to him that crime may have been committed elsewhere at SAPS, not in the house, he said: “It is proceeds of crime.”

McBride insisted that there was clear evidence of corrupt relationship between Phahlane and SAPS service providers, including one who bought and installed a sound system.

He also said the evidence was in court and formed part of an investigation that had taken place.

McBride said the people seized with the investigation should be asked about the evidence.

“I don’t have a file,” said the former IPID boss about case investigated about a decade ago.

mayibongwe.maqhina@inl.co.za